8.6: co.tucson/relig/Jehovah's Witness:
. a visit by a pair of Jehovah's Witnesses
has me counter-converting a bit;
but also reminded me
how much I have yet to learn .
. Jehovah's Witnesses are the closest I've seen
to my prefered brand of religion:
christian morals with Islamic sensibilities
(Christ was not a god).
. they are also devoted to scripture;
but they partially miss the boat:
scripture was devoted to the science of
public health (mental, physical, and spiritual);
science has advanced far beyond biblical law;
yet most religions will immorally ignore this;
relegating dietary laws to obsolete covenants
or mere forms of respecting ancestors .]
. among the names g-d had
-- Adonai, Yahweh, Jehova, etc --
what does the term "(Jehova) refer to ?
. the 50's oriental woman had picked up
some of usa's sugary, hydrogenated pounds;
I would be surprised again when she
found my answer on a note
posted at the front of her bible:
"(Jehova) refers to the creator aspect .
[. I would read up later and find
that Jehova was, in fact, like Yahweh,
an interpretation of the phrase "(I AM)
written literally in as YHWH;
but in hebrew .
. YHWH may itself have been confused with
the Roman idol "Jove" (pronounced YoWe );
some believe the name to be YaHuWaH
(Which was, which is, and which is to come).
. my own hypothesis was that
the name Adonai (master of many)
[in plural(showing majesty not number)]
was used instead of g-d's name
because the "(name) g-d supplied to Moses]
was really just sarcasm:
it conveyed a certain amount of hostility
toward anyone who would be concerned with
such trivial details as a name for
the one and only eternal master
-- "(the god of your forefathers) ! ]
8.7: The Name:
. apparently it dawned on the respectful
that g-d's name was irrelevant;
all you have to do is mention who your master is,
and they will know who you mean .
. by using the word I AM as g-d's name,
[... or later, The Name ...]
you want to remind the reader of
Moses's introduction to the master of all
(mentioned as plural because there are
numerous relations, one for each of us).
. g-d is also refered to as The Name
meaning we are universally guided by
something that can be recognized as
a Name, like a family name,
because the psychological rules we have in common
are designed by a single intelligence
separate from our own .]
. I disputed JC being the son of god;
and wondered rhetorically how we might
continue a much needed moral mission
without offending the muslims;
I was advised to see john 17:
[... JC is definitely [God the Son]
because he says he's a [Son of God]:
I would find nothing there that denies
my jesus-loves-muslims theory;
on the way back from getting a pencil
to write that reference down,
I was surprised at how traumatized I felt,
having lost my preference for standing .
. with eyes cast down,
I prayed for wisdom as to why
I was denied strength at this time;
and, when I looked back up,
the spooky serious one among them
looked at me with piercing eyes
as if to say this reaction from god
was a sign I should be rethinking
my acceptance of jesus as Lord and savior .
. she was a thin euro with
adrenalin always shaking her voice;
but also a slowed speech,
perhaps a natural consequence of
chronic high anxiety .
. well, I did rethink, at least,
how much I'll be evangelizing to
. shortly after they left,
I had some insight about christian end times,
and was glad I challenged them .
8.6: my response to end times:
. I was corrected by the believers
after assuming that the end times meant
everyone was killed in a war,
and only the believers would be
raised from the dead .
. when the last days come,
the many do not die, some live:
and they will all be believers .
. I think I see the christian strategy now:
if you tell everyone the end is near
and that only the believers will be saved;
-- and you're being told this by strangers
who are going door -to- door --
it gives people the idea they can't hide,
and if the believers do get militant
it might be in your best interest
to show a little cooperation .
. this then leads to
a self-fulfilling prophesy; because,
by spreading the threat of JC's return
you are then
aligning the critical mass needed
to bring JC back practically:
ie, JC's judging spirit does exist here
whenever his followers have
the super majority needed for
clean, quick, overwhelming force .
. but here's a big problem
with that idea:
it assumes believers are not lying
when many have been and therefore will be;
it assumes that
believers can be trusted with privacy,
when privacy is the darkness
where the prince of darkness lies .
instead of a christian coup d'état,
you'll find the same old forks,
because christian culture has done
nothing about reducing the temptations:
# private parenting breeds disculturation:
neglect, and sex abuse
leading to crime and mental illness .
# overpopulation breeds disloyalty:
when population exceeds the resources
cheating the population is seen as
the only way to preserve personal wealth .
# dogma breeds freedom-fighters:
. getting law from an ancient book
is tantamount to being a dictator;
and dictators breed revolutionaries:
the more you rule, the more you
make a target of the ruling class .
# dogma stifles social evolution:
. christians should just stay with
that main idea
that protects the least of us:
. provide the supervision that ensures
everyone is treated fairly;
use science instead of dictates:
"( . we're not saying you can't;
we are saying your behavior is risky,
and you should relocate to a city
where everyone else
wants to take the same risk you do ). [8.8:
. in pursuit of freedom and knowledge,
the science of good religion
involves reserving separate cities for
each social experiment .
. the federal constitution of a church
should be to promote the
documentation and comparison
of the various social experiments,
measuring performance based on
levels of crime, mental illness, and
other universally appreciated variables .]
. there will be no 2nd coming of The Man;
satan is the perfect liar;
and every triumph will be followed by
another cycle of revolt against the GooD .
. the key to lasting peace -- g-d's kingdom --
is the evolution of robotics technology
that can replace The Man
with a hard-wired constitutional conscience
where satan has no power .
. the argument of whether JC was a god
went on like this:
instead of JC thinking he's [god the son];
I think he meant he's a child of g-d,
like we can all be a child of g-d
whenever we honor that g-d's will .
. reading from wiki suggested
Jehova's Witnesses reject Trinitarianism, ...
. in fact,
they reject it in 2 ways:
# JC is not a god:
. trinitarianism is an answer to the
"(how could JC talk to, and be, g-d
at the same time?!);
Witnesses answer quite simply: he can't!
# Holy Spirit is not separate from g-d:
. Witnesses see the Holy Spirit
as a mere image of the Father's work,
not a separate person in league with g-d .
8.7: word games Trinitarians play:
"( Echad, in fact,
must maintain its meaning of "just one"
for these expressions to convey their intended sense.
To make our point clear:
Deut. 6:4 says that
YHWH our God is plainly, simply, one.)
. from this it occurred to me that
the reason for the Jehova's Witness's
nit-picking with the Trinitarians about
the existence of a [God the Spirit]
might be just to help teach others about
what is really meant by God the Son
(ie, if you obey the god,
you are the god's body;
just as good children are the bodies of
their parents . [8.10:
-- not to be confused with
your will being equal to g-d's,
rather, you deserve love and respect
for faithfully serving g-d's will] ).
8.7: word games Trinitarians play:
"(. perhaps most importantly,
echad clearly has the meaning of
single, alone, ONLY one, or JUST one,
the ideal of a limit of one
(Num. 10:4; Josh. 17:14; Esth. 4:11; Isa. 51:2).
In Deuteronomy 17:6, for example,
it really isn't precise English to translate echad
merely as "one".
For if the "one" witness referred to
is the second of the third witness,
then that one witness is enough
to convict the hypothetical person of murder.
The meaning is that a person must
not be put to death on the evidence of
only one witness
(which is the way the NRSV translates it).
Echad means "one" and ONLY one) .
. recalling JC said
"(where 2 or more gather in my name)
seemed to be implying that
his name is about passing judgements ...
he specifically says he is not here to
pass judgement: that is the domain of g-d;
JC's name is about being a good witness:
there is confidence in
the fidelity of witnesses
only when their numbers agree .]